Shall we pray? Heavenly Father, we thank you for this Sabbath, we thank you for bringing us together to consider your word. We ask for your Holy Spirit, we ask for discernment that we might be blessed with the light that we need for these troublous times that are now taking place on planet Earth. Be with those of us that are having our special trials, whether it's health or other circumstances, and help us focus on you this day in this sacred time, in Jesus' name, amen. You can hear me, right? Are you there? Anyone? Okay, there's a yes. Last Sabbath, I don't have any problem with last Sabbath presentations or anything in that regard, and I don't have any problem with Colin or anything like that, but I need to go back and address one thing from last Sabbath about the discussion of verse 14 of Daniel 11. The reason I need to do that is, the reason I feel convicted to do it, is I assume that most of the people that are regulars on the Zoom meeting from Canada and the United States were in the message of the Future for America talk through the years, so they have a familiarity with the methodology and principles of prophecy that we use. But last week, maybe it's more now, there was 126 countries around the world that are following this message, and I just don't have no way to know who is tuning into these Zoom meetings and whether they're experienced in this methodology or they're beginners. And for the beginners, if they're out there, I have a little bit of concern that they may not have even understood whether there was a significance to the discussion last week or not, or what the significance was, so I'm going to just go through a couple of things again and try to put it in a light to where we can see what we were discussing about whether the United States or the papacy is the power that establishes the vision, and I'm going to begin with some of the, there's probably not a quote in these quotes that we haven't recently had, it's pretty much rehashing some things that we said, but in Testimonies Volume 5, page 708, it says, "...whatever may be man's intellectual advancement, let him not for a moment think that there is no need of thorough and continuous searching of the Scriptures for greater light, as the people were called individually to be students of prophecy." Every Seventh-day Adventist, everyone listening to this Zoom meeting is called individually to be a student of prophecy. It won't do any good if your spouse is a student of prophecy, or your children, or your grandparents are student of prophecies. They're not going to get you through what's going to happen in the very near future. Reviewing the Herald, December 18, 1888, "...it does not seem possible to us now that any should have to stand alone, but if God has ever spoken by me, the time will come when we shall be brought before councils and before thousands for His namesake, and each one will have to give the reason of his faith. Then will come the severest criticism upon every position that's been taken for the truth. We need, then, to study the Word of God, that we may know why we believe the doctrines we advocate. We must critically search the living oracles of Jehovah." If God's ever spoken by Ellen White, the time will come when at least some of us are going to have to stand alone, and we're going to have to know the message for ourself. We'll have to know the doctrines we advocate if we're going to stand in a time, if you notice, before thousands for His namesake, when we'll be brought before councils and before thousands for His namesake. I don't know how people in Ellen White's period of time could have been brought before thousands. I don't even think there were coliseums. Maybe there was back then. Where were you going to do it? But now we know through the internet and television in this day and age that evidently we're going to be brought into court, and it's going to be broadcast over the media, and thousands of people are going to watch it. When that happens, if we don't understand why we believe and what we believe and what we've been proclaiming, we won't want to be there. Testimonies volume 5463, the members of the church will individually be tested and proved. They will be placed in circumstances where they'd be forced to bear witness for the truth. Many will be called to speak before councils and in courts of justice, perhaps separately and alone. The experience which would help them in this emergency they have neglected to obtain, and their souls are burdened with remorse for wasted opportunities and neglected privileges. So one of my issues here is that every one of us that's in this Zoom meeting needs to settle in to the prophetic message, but not just settle into the prophetic message. The promise of the Bible and the spirit of prophecy is in the last days. The 144,000 see eye-to-eye. They still settle into the identical prophetic message. The test that is the test by which our eternal destiny is decided is the image of the beast test, and the next quote in the notes from manuscript releases volume 15, page 15, is one we've referred to often over the past few Zoom meetings. I want to make sure, because I call it the image of the beast test, and I'm sure that's an accurate description of it, is also the third angel's message. These thoughts came from a question about what is the third angel's message, and in Review and Herald, October 31st, 1899, it says, many who went forth to meet the bridegroom under the first and the second angels refused the third, the last, testing message to be given to the world. The last testing message has to be our image of the beast test, because this is where our eternal destiny is determined, and this is the test we must pass before we are sealed. Many who went forth to meet the bridegroom under the message of the first and second angels refused the third, the last, testing message to be given to the world, and a similar position will be taken when the last call is made. Every specification of this parable should be carefully studied. We are represented by the wise or by the foolish virgins. So, in this final testing process, we're going to manifest whether we're wise or foolish virgins, and it'll be based upon the preparation that we do in this period of probation, and part of that preparation has to do with mastering the prophetic message. So, what I'm dealing with, what I'm going to start dealing with now, with that little context in place where you see in your notes verses 40 to 45, I contend that the portion of Daniel that was unsealed in 1989 was his last six verses of Daniel 11, and verse 40 identifies the deadly wound of the papacy in 1798, and verse 45 identifies when the papacy is brought to its end with none to help. So, those verses begin with the papacy being delivered a deadly wound, and they end with the papacy being delivered a deadly wound, and therefore the beginning and ending of those verses is telling the same story, and those verses are the verses that were unsealed in 1989, and they're telling the story about the final rise and fall of the king of the north, the final rise and fall of the papacy. And that's my contention, is that the papacy is the prophetic power that establishes the vision at the end. In 1989, we didn't really begin to understand or study Daniel 11, 40 to 45 until I think about 1991, but in 1989, most definitely, we began studying the reform lines. I know this is so because I know the group of people that would come to our house for those studies over a period of time, and a couple of them got married during that period of time, and they chose to get married in our backyard. So, years later, I asked this brother that got married in our backyard, when was it? What was the year of your marriage? And it was 1989, and in 1989, I had come across a chapter in Selected Messages, and from that chapter, I could see the basic structure of the reform lines, and that turned into the very first presentation I ever did publicly, was the reform lines. It's the line-up online, latter rain message that was opened up in 1989, and around 1991, we began to understand the last six verses of Daniel 11, and the chapter where the reform lines were first recognized in Selected Messages, there's a portion of it now that I'm going to read, and it's amazing how many important truths are in this chapter, and this is only about four or five paragraphs from that chapter. It's just loaded with information, and if you're careful when you read it, you can see that she's describing a reformatory movement, the structure of it, but that's not what I want us to see. I'm going to take this passage, and she's going to address that there's going to be an increase of knowledge in the last days, and for her, that increase of knowledge from the Book of Daniel would be 1989. That was still future to her. The time at the end for Sister Wyatt was 1798, and she's speaking about a future time at the end, which would be 1989, and in the passage, she's going to identify that that increase of knowledge has to do with the papacy. So, beginning the passage under the subtitle in your notes, 1989, the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels' messages have been located by the Word of Inspiration. Not a pager pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages and substitute the New Testament for the Old. The Old Testament is the gospel and figures and symbols. The New Testament is the substance. One is as essential as the other. The Old Testament presents lessons from the lips of Christ, and these lessons have not lost their force in any particular. The first and second angels' messages were given in 1843 and 1844, and we're now under the proclamation of the third, but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they should be repeated to those who are seeking for truth. By pen and voice, we're to sound the proclamation. It's real clear in here in this chapter. This is one of the sentences that I say identifies for the student the reform lines. This is part of the information in there that can lead you to that understanding. By pen and voice, we're to sound the proclamation, showing their order. So, you have to show the order, first, second, third angels' message, and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angels' message. All the prophecies that bring us to October 22, 1844, we're to continue to teach those. There cannot be a third without the first and the second. These messages we're to give in the world of publications and discourses showing in the line of prophetic history the things that have been and the things that will be. So, when we have this line of prophetic history of the first, second, and third angels' messages that came in the Millerite history, we're to show the things that have been in the Millerite history, and in doing so, we will be showing the things that will be. This is the logic that's in this chapter that begins to provide the information to those that want to see the teaching of the reform lines, that all the reform and victory movements parallel one another. Continuing on, it says, the book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel, which related to the last days. And I contend that here, at the very end of the sealing time, that the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that relates to the last days is the hidden history in verse 40 that covers 1989 to verse 41, the Sunday Law. That hidden history is what has been unsealed in our history now, at the end of the sealing time. The sealing time began at 9-11. We're now approaching the conclusion of that. The scripture says, But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. When the book was opened, the proclamation was made, time shall be no longer. The book of Daniel is now unsealed, and the revelation made to Christ by John is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth. By the increase of knowledge, the people is to be prepared to stand in the latter days. We're going to look at some passages where she talks about what our preparation is supposed to be. to be in a moment, but she's saying, by the increase of knowledge in the latter days, which is future from her time period, the increase of knowledge that was produced at the time of the end in 1989, is what's designed by God to prepare His people to stand in the latter days. Then she quotes the first angel's message from Revelation 14, and she continues, this message of Eden will call attention to every, of every nation and kindred and tongue and people to a close examination of the word. And the last part of that sentence I wanna highlight for you, so I'm gonna read it again, but it's part of the point here, about what that message that was unsealed in 1989, and the message that's unsealed here at the end is, says this message of Eden will call attention, call the attention of every nation and kindred and tongue and people to a close examination of His word and to the true light in regard to the power that has changed the Sabbath, the seventh-day Sabbath to a spurious Sabbath. The message of Eden is going to identify the power that has changed the seventh-day Sabbath, and I'm arguing, of course, this is the papal power. The only true God has been forsaken. His law has been discarded. His sacred Sabbath institution has been trampled in the dust by the man of sin. The fourth commandment, so plain and explicit, has been ignored. The Sabbath memorial declaring who the living God is, the creators of heavens and earth, has been torn down, and a spurious Sabbath has been given to the world in its place. Thus, a breach has been made in the law of God. A false Sabbath could not be a true standard. The first angels met in the first angels' message. Men are called upon to worship God, our creator who made the world and all things that are therein. They have paid homage to an institution of the papacy, making of no effect the law of Jehovah, but there is to be an increase of knowledge on this subject. And if you go up one, two, three, the bottom of the fourth paragraph that precedes that paragraph, the last sentence says, by the increase of knowledge, a people is to be prepared to stand in the latter days. And then this paragraph says, there is to be an increase of knowledge on this subject. In the latter days, there's gonna be an increase of knowledge on the homage being paid to an institution of the papacy that makes of no effect the law of Jehovah. The increase of knowledge is about the papacy and the Sunday law. And that's, in 1989, that is what was recognized when we began to understand verse 40. We first had to come to grips with, well, who is the king in the north and who is the king in the south? No one was seven at that time, but the people that had studied it in the past, such as Uriah Smith, they were wrong on who the king of the north and the king of the south were. The first things that we had to do was recognize that these verses were about the true king of the north and that that king of the north is the papal power. That's what was unsealed in 1989. And that unsealing is what was to prepare God's people to stand in the latter days. So what's it mean to be prepared? The next quote from early writings tells us that the experience of the first disappointment in the Millerite history was what prepared them to receive the message of the second angel and call the Protestants out of Babylon. They had to go through that disappointment. It was part of their preparation in order to receive the message of the second angel. And all the angels, when they arrive, they have a message in their hand and the message that's in their hand is to be taken and eaten. And Jeremiah gives an example of God's people eating the little book. John gives the example of God's people eating the little book. And Ezekiel gives an example of God's people eating the little book. And in Ezekiel two and three, when Ezekiel takes a message out of the angel's hand and eats it, and after the disappointment in Millerite history, the faithful of that period that didn't jump ship were prepared to receive the message of the second angel. They were prepared to eat that message and present it. And Ezekiel tells us that the message is to go to God's people at that time. If it was given outside of God's people, those people that were outside of God's people would accept the message. But this message was for God's people and it wasn't going to be accepted. You can find that in Ezekiel chapter two and three. Passing over now the quote about the disappointment in the Millerite history to what is the work of preparation that we need to accomplish to stand in the latter days to be thoroughly trained in the message for the time when we're being called individually before the courts of the land. From Testimonies to Ministers 507, it says, many having a great measure filled to receive the former rain, they have not obtained all the benefits that God hath thus provided for them. They expect that their lack will be supplied by the latter rain. And this is the theme in her writings. The latter rain, the former rain is the messages that God gives his people, that's the rain. And if you do not, if we do not keep up with the progressive development of truth leading up to the latter rain, then we don't receive the latter rain. The progression of truth is to be mastered as we approach the sealing time. When the richest abundance of grace shall be bestowed, they intend to open their hearts to receive it. They're making a terrible mistake. The work that God has begun in the human heart in giving his light knowledge must continually, must be continually going forward. Every individual must realize his own necessity. The heart must be emptied of every defilement and cleansed for the indwelling of the spirit. It's by the confession and forsaking of sin by earnest prayer and consecration of themselves to God, the early disciples prepared for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Part of our preparation is not simply to be students of prophecy, but we're supposed to be totally humbled into the dust by the experience that we've just went through. And as Daniel did in chapter nine, we're to enter in truly and honestly with the Leviticus 26 prayer, which is the confession of our sins, the sins of our fathers and an acknowledgement that we weren't walking with God and he wasn't walking with us, everything that's in there in Leviticus 26. And that's what took place in the disciples before Pentecost and Pentecost is a classic illustration of the Sunday law. Continuing on, the same work only in greater degree must be done now. Then the human agent had only to ask for the blessing and wait for the Lord to perfect his work concerning him. It is God who begun the work and he will finish the work, making men complete in Jesus Christ. But there must be no neglect of the grace represented by the former rain. Only those that are living up to the light they have will receive greater light unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of active Christian virtue. We shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it. We use this quote often for a lot of reasons, but here I'm simply saying that there's a preparation that the disciples had to make before the day of Pentecost, which typifies our preparation that we need to make before the Sunday law. And that preparation is a hard work. Counsels to diets and foods, the refreshing your power of God comes only on those who've prepared themselves for it by doing the work which God bids them, namely cleansing themselves from all filthiness and of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. That's one of the elements of our preparation. There's also a progressive nature of it, and it is a suffering. She uses that word, Review and Herald, April 10th, 1894. The purification of God's people cannot be accomplished without suffering. Are any of you suffering? Have you suffered recently? God permits the fire of affliction to consume the dross to separate the worthless from the valuable in order that the pure metal may shine forth. He passes us from one fire to another, testing our true worth. True grace is willing to be tried. If we are loathed to be searched by the Lord, our condition is one of peril. God is a refiner and purifier of souls. He places us in the heat of the furnace that the dross may be forever separated from the true gold of Christian character. Jesus watches the test. He knows just what fire of temptation and trial is needed to purify the precious metal in order that the radiance of divine love may be reflected. It is by close testing trials that God brings his people near to himself for in trial and temptation, he discovers to them their weakness and teaches them to lean upon him as their only help and safeguard. When this result is attained, his object is accomplished and his tried servants are prepared to be used in every emergency, to fill important positions of trust, to accomplish the grand purposes for which their powers were given. God takes men upon trial and he proves them upon the right hand and upon the left until they're educated, trained and disciplined for his use. If you're not having personal struggles and if they're not escalating one after another, it is something that you're missing. You're either blind to trial and struggle that you're really in, or you're loath to have the Lord investigate your circumstances, your situation, and it's too late in the day to place yourself in that position. What is justification by faith? This manuscript releases volume 20, page 117. This is Sister White's classic, I consider it the classic statement about what justification by faith is. What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ. When they begin to praise and exalt God all day long, then by beholding, they become changed and do the same image. What is regeneration? It is revealing to man what his own real nature, what is his own real nature that in himself, he is worthless. We need to have that experience if we're gonna be prepared to be used by him and what he's prepared in order to accomplish that work in us is the messages of the golden oil that's poured out as represented in Zechariah chapter three and four. And Sister White says about this, just as long as those who profess the truth are serving Satan, his hellish shadow will cut off their views of God in heaven. They will be as those who have lost their first love. They cannot view eternal realities. That which God has prepared for us, he's prepared something for us to allow us to justify us humblest in the dust. And to allow us to stand faithfully in those courts of the land when we are arrested. That which God has prepared for us is represented in Zechariah chapters three and four and four, 12 through 14. And I answered again and said, what be these two olive branches, which through the two golden pipes emptied the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, knowest thou not what these be? And I said, no, my Lord. Then said he, these are the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. And the two anointed ones are, they're the old New Testament, they're the Bible and the spirit of prophecy. They're Moses and Elijah. They're the avenues that the Lord uses, the golden pipes to convey his message to his people and his message is designed to humble us into the dust as we realize what our glory amounts to. And it's also to give us the message of warning that's to be sounded to the world around us. Notice when she places the context and that which the Lord God has prepared for us is represented in Zechariah. And then she talks about the oil coming down through the two golden pipes as she quotes Zechariah. And then she says this, the Lord is full of resources. He has no lack of facilities. It is because of our lack of faith, our earthliness, our cheap talk, our unbelief manifested in our conversation that dark shadows gather about us. Christ is not revealed in word or character as the one altogether lovely and the chiefest among us among 10,000. When the soul is content to lift itself up into vanity, unto vanity, the spirit of the Lord can do little for it. Our short. sighted vision beholds the shadow, but we cannot see the glory beyond." She's said that which the God had prepared for us is represented in Zechariah, and she quotes a little of Zechariah where the Holy Spirit's poured through the two golden pipes. And then in answering what He's prepared for us, she says, angels are holding the four winds represented as an angry horse seeking to break loose and rush over the face of the whole earth bearing destruction and death in its path. Shall we sleep on the very verge of the eternal world? What He's prepared for God's people, represented by the four winds and Islam, the angry horse of Bible prophecy, is given to us when we're in a sleeping condition, as in the parable of the ten virgins, the virgins all slept, they were slain in the streets of Sodom and Egypt. They were dead dry bones. Shall we sleep on the very verge of the eternal world? Shall we be dull and cold and dead? Oh, that we might have in our churches the spirit and breath of God breathed into His people that they might stand upon their feet and live. We need to see that the way is narrow and the gate is straight, but as we pass through the straight gate, its wideness is without limit. What was unsealed in 1989 was the King of the North and the soon-coming Sunday Law in verse 41. It was the story of the final rise and fall of the King of the North when he comes to his end with none to help when probation closes in verse 45. But in verse 44, the message that enrages the papacy is identified as tidings out of the east and out of the north, representing, among other things, a two-fold message. And the tidings out of the north is the light on the papacy, the King of the North, and the tidings out of the east is the light of the angels that are holding the four winds of Islam, the third woe, back from doing their work of destruction. It's about to reach us in the soon-coming Sunday Law. The oil that comes down through those two pipes, Sister White defines, she says, the anointed one standing before the Lord of the whole earth, having the position once given as Satan is covering Cherub. By the holy being surrounding his throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth. The golden oil represents that grace with which God keeps the lambs of believers supplied, that they shall not flicker and go out. Were it not that this holy oil is poured from heaven in the messages of God's Spirit, the agencies of evil would have entire control over men. God is dishonored when we do not receive the communications He sends us, thus we refuse the golden oil which would be poured into our souls to be communicated to those in darkness. When the call shall come, behold, the bridegroom cometh for you to meet him. Those who have not received the holy oil, who have not cherished the grace of Christ in their hearts, will find, like the foolish virgins, that they are not ready to meet their Lord. They have not in themselves the power to obtain the oil, and their lives are wrecked. But if God's Holy Spirit is asked for, if we plead as did Moses, show me thy glory, the love of God will be shed abroad in our hearts. Through the golden pipes, the golden oil will be communicated to us, not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit, save the Lord of hosts. By receiving the bright beams of the sun of righteousness, God's children shine as lights in the world. We have a work of preparation to do, and what the Lord has prepared for us to accomplish that preparatory work is His prophetic message, and His prophetic message at one level, Daniel 11, 40 to 45, it's the tidings of the east of Islam and the north of the papacy. It's the message of Daniel 2, which is the message of the prophetic powers, the eight powers that reach their conclusion at the end of the world. It's the message of Daniel 9, of acknowledging our sinfulness before the Lord. The message breaks down in those two ways, in order to prepare us to be among those that are lifted up as an ensign. Selected message in book 2, page 385, the great issue near at hand will weed out those whom God has not appointed, and He will have a pure sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain. As God's people approach, you got to ask yourself, the great issue near at hand will weed out those whom God has not appointed, and He will have a pure sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain. The great issue near at hand is the Sunday law, and there's other passages in the Spirit of Prophecy where she identifies, right now the Sunday law is on the horizon, and by faith you can see it, but you can't see it openly. So once it comes out in the open, those that have not been sanctified by this message, they're going to jump ship. It's the great issue that weeds out those, and they get weeded out. The Sunday law is where the door is closed. We have to have that faith, that experience, and that prophetic understanding in advance of the event, in advance of the final crisis or the great issue. As God's people approach the final crisis, they must, with increasing power, proclaim the message He has given them. What message is He given us that we're supposed to proclaim with increasing power? The warning must be given to the churches. What churches? The Protestant churches, or the Adventist church, or the Catholic church, or the Buddhist church. God's requirement must be lived for those who are transgressing His law. They must understand that this is a life and death question. God's remnant people are to fill the earth with the cry of the third angel. God would have His people prepared for the soon coming crisis. Prepared or unprepared, we must all meet it. Only those whose characters are thoroughly disciplined to meet the divine standard will be able to stand firm in that testing time. But when enemies shall be on every side, watching them for evil, the God of heaven will be watching His precious jewels for good. When secular rulers unite with the ministers of religion to come between God and our conscience, then those who cherish the fear of God will be revealed. When the darkness is deepest, then the light of a noble God-like character will shine the brightest. When every other trust fails, then it will be seen who have an abiding trust in God." Sketches from the Life of Paul, 252. So this is the introduction to what I want to say this afternoon. And basically, I'm arguing that we have a preparation to make that is the individual preparation of humbling ourselves before the Lord, allowing the Lord to humble us in the dust, revealing the worthlessness of our human glory that we might be justified by His righteousness, and the light of the prophetic message for this time. And the light of the prophetic message, as I understand it, that is for this time, is what was unsealed in 1889. It's the final rise and fall of the King of the North, the papacy. And as we've studied through the years, the prophetic word, we realize that Jesus always illustrates the end of the thing with the beginning of the thing. And I contend that the first 15 verses of Daniel 11 are the beginning, and the last six verses of Daniel 11 are the ending. And that the information that is to be especially laid over the top of the hidden passage in verse 40, is the information in the first 15 verses of Daniel 11. I was talking to a brother that follows the articles, not fully engaged in reading through them like I would hope people were doing, but he's followed them. And he has an aptitude in this message. And as we were speaking, he acknowledges that he really doesn't have the full grasp of those first 15 verses of Daniel 11. And that's part of what caused me to be concerned about the conversation last week, is if this brother is kind of weak in that understanding, the first 15 verses of Daniel 11, what about those around the world that the Holy Spirit has drawn into this message, and they're not so familiar with things that have already been put into the public record, methodologies, principles of Bible prophecy that we employ. So, I looked again at those first 15 verses, and verses 1 and 2 identify Trump stirring up Greece, verses 3 and 4 identify the United Nations, the seventh kingdom of Bible prophecy, all the way to the close of probation when their kingdom is, the four winds are released. But then from 5 through 15, you have a very detailed description of the history that illustrates 538 to 1798. And then you have a very deep illustration of the Asian for the war of 1798 that was accomplished in 1989. And these two histories were accomplished in antiquity, but they're parallel to everything we teach about verse 40, the 35 years that verses 5 through 7 are representing 3.5 years to 1260 years. I'm not going to go through those verses at this time, we did it, they're in the articles. But what I am going to, I'm going to jump forward to, I'm going to pass over verses 10, 11, and 12, where we see the war in the Ukraine being carried out by Russia. And I'm going to make my argument here, if you will, about verse 14. Let's go now to Daniel 11. Daniel 11, verse 7. In verse 7, it's dealing with the King of the South coming into the King of the North's fortress and taking him captive. And the word fortress there is going to be used in verse 10. So I wanted to make sure that you, that identified when Napoleon's general went into the Vatican and took the Pope captive in 1798, and he died the next year in 1799, as did this king that was taken back to Egypt, the first time this was fulfilled. And in verse 8 through 10, you see this, these goods carried back into Egypt by the victorious Egyptian king. And then in verse 9, so the King of the South shall come into his kingdom and he shall return into his own land, but his son shall be stirred up, his sons there being the King of the North, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces, and one shall certainly come and overflow and pass over and shall return and be stirred up even to his fortress. In that history, this is the retaliation that's typifying 1989. The King of the North, the papacy, along with the United States, the chariots, ships, and horsemen, they swept away the former Soviet Union, but they did not enter into Russia, just as had happened in verse 10, when the sons of the King of the North were stirred up, and they came back and they retaliated against Egypt, but they only came to the border of Egypt because they came up to his fortress. We, therefore, have a battle identified in 1989 that is in verse 40, which is the King of the North in conjunction with the United States supplying chariots, ships, and horsemen, sweeping away the Soviet Union in 1989, but they left Russia standing. And if you're going to follow the flow of events, in verse 10, it says, and the King of the South shall be moved with the King of the North, and he shall set forth a great multitude, but the multitude shall be given into his hand. And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up, and he shall cast that many 10,000, and he shall not be strengthened by it. We have to decide here when it says he's going to come and battle with the King of the North, is this a... I'm suggesting it's the same type battle that was in verse 10. And in verse 10, the King of the North sweeps away the Soviet Union, he sweeps away the King of the South, but he uses a proxy army on the ground to do it, the United States. And I'm suggesting that this is the same kind of battle and I'm... suggesting here that in verse 11, that the King of the North here, that is in a battle with the King of the South, that the King of the South is the same King of the South of verse 10, which would be Russia in our day and age. And he's gonna come out and fight with the King of the North but he's not gonna go fight at the Vatican. He's not gonna fight the papacy. He's gonna fight it once again, a proxy army of the papacy, which is the Ukraine, which is Nazis. They've been the proxy army for the papacy in the past in World War II. And the Ukrainian Nazis are the proxy army. Again, if you haven't settled into this as a reality, then while you are settling into it, let me point out to you that you need to be clear about who the King of the North here is if you're going to accurately apply this. Is he coming out to fight with the papacy or is he coming out to fight with the papacy's proxy army? I argue it's a proxy army as it was in 1989, verse 10. And as it is going to be in the following verses, I see three battles in verse 40. 1989 is the battle we're looking at, the collapse of the Soviet Union, followed by the Ukrainian War, which is verses 11 and 12, followed by the third battle in the passage. And this is where I wanna settle into. And I wanna put a piece of logic into the mix here. If the sequence of events that's portrayed in verses 13, 14, and 15 were fulfilled in history as they were, and if Uriah Smith is giving the accurate overview of that fulfillment, and as far as he is, I haven't heard anyone ever argue against that, then whatever these histories of verses 13 through 15 represent at the end of the world, all the dynamics of verses 13 through 15 will have to have a parallel in the last days that they're pointing forward to in the hidden history of verse 40. And what I'm suggesting to you is that the papacy is the king of the North, but its proxy army, which is the subject throughout these verses, whether it be 1989, the proxy army, or the proxy army of the Nazis in the Ukraine now, or the proxy army, once again, of the United States, still, the proxies are representing the papacy. And so Uriah Smith says this, and if you're gonna hold to the powers that are illustrated in this verses, as is identified by Uriah Smith, the history is identified by Uriah Smith, then you have a difficult time, from my understanding, identifying the United States as the power that establishes the vision, and I think you'll see that as we go through. So I'm gonna read Uriah Smith. He just quotes verse 13. He says, the events predicted in this verse were to occur after certain years. The peace concluded between Ptolemy Philippator and Antiochus lasted 14 years. Meanwhile, Ptolemy died from intemperance and debauchery and was succeeded by his son, Ptolemy Epiphanes, a child then four or five years old. Antiochus, during the same time, having suppressed rebellion in his kingdom and reduced and settled the eastern parts in their obedience, was at leisure for any enterprise when young Epiphanes came to the throne of Egypt, and thinking this too good an opportunity for enlarging his dominion to let slip, he raised an immense army greater than the former, for he had collected many forces and acquired great riches in his eastern expedition, and set out against Egypt, expecting to have an easy victory over the infant king. How he succeeded we shall presently see, for here new complications enter into the affairs of these kingdoms, and new actors are introduced upon the stage of history. At this point, we have Antiochus and Ptolemy. Ptolemy's the child, but this is a battle between the king of the north and the king of the south. In the previous battle, Ptolemy won at Raphia, and the previous battle before that, the Antiochus, the king of the north, won in 1989, but the king of the north is using proxy armies, the United States, then Nazis, and then he's gonna use the United States again, and so Antiochus, the proxy army of the papacy, prepares for this confrontation with, in verse 14, 15, new actors are introduced, as it says, and he quotes verse 14, and in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south, also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision, but they shall fall. Antiochus was not the only one who rose up against the infant Ptolemy. Agathocles, his prime minister, having possession of the king's person and conducting the affairs of the kingdom in his stead, was so desolate and proud in the exercise of his power that the provinces which before were subject to Egypt rebelled. Egypt itself was disturbed by seditions, and the Alexandrians, rising up against Agathocles, caused him, his sister's mother, and their associates to be put to death. At the same time, Philip of Macedon entered into a league with Antiochus to divide the dominion of Ptolemy between them, each proposing to take parts which lay nearest and most convenient to him. Here was a rising up against the king of the south sufficient to fulfill the prophecy and the very events beyond doubt which prophecy intended. So Smith has pointed out that in his history as Antiochus is getting ready to go after Egypt, that he also forms a league with Philip of Macedon, and there's also struggles going on with Egypt itself. So there's many power players here, but most definitely Antiochus is the proxy army of the papacy. And Philip of Macedon, Macedonia is Greece. We won't get into that, what kind of alliance is being illustrated here at the end of the world, but that's part of the story. But the next paragraph, speaking of verse 14, Uriah Smith says this, "'A new power is now introduced, "'the robbers of thy people,' "'literally,' says Bishop Newton, "'the breakers of thy people.'" Whoever this power is that establishes the vision falls and exalts itself, it's a new power, it isn't Antiochus. Antiochus is the proxy army of the King of the North. He's the one with the boots on the ground, along with Philip of Macedon. And the work of the student of prophecy now, which we're all called to be is, do you accept the premise that Antiochus here is the proxy army of the King of the North? Because if you do, not just not simply that, that Antiochus is the proxy army of the King of the North, and it is the United States. If you accept that premise, then you have difficulty seeing a new power introduced in verse 40 that exalts himself to establish the vision that falls and calling it the United States, because it's a different power than the United States. If it is the United States, then what we have been labeling, what I have been labeling as Antiochus and Philip of Macedon and even Ptolemy, back into the previous verses, is most likely erroneous. "'A new power is introduced, "'the robbers of thy people,' literally says Bishop Newton, "'the breakers of thy people. "'Far away on the banks of the Tiber, "'a kingdom had been nourishing itself "'with ambitious projects and dark designs. "'Small and weak at first, "'it grew with marvelous rapidity in strength and vigor, "'reaching out cautiously in there to try its prowess "'and test the vigor of its warlike arm. "'Til conscience of its power, "'it boldly reared its head among the nations of the earth "'and seized with invincible hand the helm of their affairs. "'Henceforth, the name of Rome "'stands upon the historic page, "'destined for long ages "'to control the affairs of the world "'and exert a mighty influence among the nations, "'even to the end of time. "'Rome spoke, and Syria and Macedonia "'soon found a change coming over the aspect of name. "'The Romans appeared on behalf of the young king of Egypt, "'determined that it should be kept from the Romans "'by Antiochus and Philip.' "'This was BC 200, "'and it was one of the first important interferences "'of Roman affairs of Syria and Egypt, "'confirming just the following "'succinct account of this matter.'" You're right, Smith. What I'm saying is, some of us last Sabbath that were listening may have been unsure how we understood the power that established the vision. We may have seen merit in both sides or neither side or whatever, but I'm hoping you see that verses 13 to 15 are drawing a distinction between Antiochus, who at this point is the king of the north, his representative that's getting ready to do battle with the king of the south, Ptolemy, and a new power is the one that comes into the scenario that establishes the vision in false. In Millerite history, they understood and defended that that new power of Rome. In our history, I have always understood that it is Rome. I never really, I had an understanding of verse 14, but I was not settled into it very well. And years ago, I mean, it's like the year 2000 or so, I don't know. I don't remember when it was, 2006. It's all a blur to me, but we had a meeting in Oklahoma and the meeting went as this. There was a theologian from the general conference and there was myself and we traded off presenting the last six verses of Daniel 11. He would speak for 30 minutes and then he'd answer questions for 15 minutes, something like that. And then I would speak for 30 minutes and ask their questions for 15 minutes. It was a limited number of people. Half were conference employees, half were self-supporting workers. And the theologian from Andrews had did his doctoral thesis on the last six verses of Daniel 11 and he was wrong on almost everything. And he was not used to having hard questions thrown at him. His position changed as the days went on and the discussions and the questions and answers. He finally went home early. He couldn't take it. It was too much of a stressor for him to be challenged. I wasn't challenging him. I was purposely keeping quiet so I didn't become confrontational. But from the floor, he was being challenged. But what I would do is I would hear what he had to say about the last six verses of Daniel 11. And then when I went up to do the same verses, I would cover those same verses and I would include in it any kind of commentary on what he had just said about those verses that I thought was wrong. And I really never had a great understanding of verse 14 of Daniel 11. I understood it, but not in depth. And a day or two before we went to this meeting, it was in Oklahoma. For whatever reason, I picked up an article by William Miller and I read William Miller's argument about Daniel 11, 14. And one of his big points in verse 14, it says, in those times there should many stand up against the King of the South. Also the robbers of the people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision, but they shall fall. One of the big points in that verse for William Miller was the word also. Also the robbers of the people. And he made it, he went into depth that this has to be a different power than the Syrian power of Antiochus. Because what Miller was arguing with was that people were claiming this power that established the vision was one of the last remnants of the Syrian empire in Antiochus. And Miller said, no, this is Rome. And the word also proves it. So there's a distinction. And I was happy I'd read that because when I got up after I heard this theologian from the general conference say that the power that established the vision was Antiochus Epiphanes, I had all William Miller's argument front and center in my mind and I put him out there. But there's a, the argument. back then at a simple level was, is the robbers of thy people a descendant of the Antiochus clan? And the answer is no. Okay, so the Millerite history, if nothing else, tells us that the robbers of thy people and whoever Antiochus, the king of the north, represents in this passage is they're two different entities. Okay, so you may have been ambivalent or you may have your position or whatever, but I don't think you can do that. I think you're approaching the close of human probation and you're supposed to, with increasing power, be proclaiming the message that's being unsealed. And these first 15 verses are the beginning that illustrate the ending of the message that is being unsealed. And if there's any place that God's people need to be eye to eye upon, it's this particular passage, because this is the final unsealing in the book of Daniel, the portion of Daniel that related to the last days. And according to the very chapter where it's unsealed, there's one power that establishes the vision. It's the power that exalts themselves and it's the power that exalts. Okay, so what I'm saying is that God's people that are listening on this Zoom meeting, if you're new in the message, this may require some time for you to grapple through. If you're old in the message, maybe so. But I think we need to be clear about it. I'm going to switch gears in these last three Bible quotes. I think it's very, very difficult for me to assess where we are at as a group, a Zoom group meeting, because I haven't any faces to see and we're all over the world. When I used to teach publicly, you could look out at the audience and you could see if you were losing your audience or you could see if someone was getting frustrated or angry or whatever, and then you could try to address it if you wanted to. I don't know exactly what to address here because of that fact, but I have to address the fact that I think the power that establishes the vision is the papacy, the papal power. And yes, without a doubt, the United States is the image of the papal power. But even that, the United States is the image of the beast as a prophetic symbol when the United States is the image of the beast. Even the symbol that it is, it's the image of the beast. It's based upon the beast. The beast is what establishes the characteristics that are repeated by the United States. It does not become the beast. It's an image of the beast. Okay, so in Habakkuk chapter 2 verses 1 through 4, it says, I will stand upon my watch and set me upon the tower and watch to see what he will say unto me and what I shall answer when I'm reproved. And the Lord answered me and said, write the vision and make it plain upon tables that he may run that readeth it. That was fulfilled in Millerite history and it gets fulfilled in our history to the very letter. But in our history, the Millerite history, it was an external fulfillment. They were to write the vision and make it plain upon the two sacred charts of 1843 and 1850. But we are going to repeat that not because we're going to produce charts, but because we're going to reproduce the character of Christ in our own experience when divinity is combined with humanity. But the element of our character that is going to reflect Christ is going to be based upon having an understanding of the vision of Christ. It's going to be part of us. So when Hebrews 10, 16 says, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, sayeth the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts and then in their minds, I will write them. When the watchman in Habakkuk stood upon the tower to see what he was going to answer in the debate of his history, what he was told is write the vision and make it plain upon tables that he may run that readeth it. And I'm saying that the vision of Christ, both the external vision and the internal vision has to be written upon our hearts and minds in order for us to become the living charts, the living tables. 2 Corinthians 3 verses 2 and 3 says, ye are our epistle written in our hearts. Epistle is a letter. Ye are our letter written in our hearts known and read of all men. Write the vision and make it plain that he may run that readeth it. Written on our hearts known and read of all men for as much as ye are manifestly declared to be the letter, the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart. Write the vision and make it plain upon tables that he may run that readeth it. The internal work that is being accomplished in the sealing of the 144,000 is accomplished through his prophetic word. And at this point in history, those people that are sealed by that message, that are transformed into his image, will see eye to eye. The message comes together and we have to understand it because we're to increase in power as we present it as time goes on. We're going to have to grow in this message. And I think we need to be clear that the message that was unsealed in 1989 is the message about the Sunday Law and the papacy, and that it is this that establishes the vision. And what sent me down this thought process a few Sabbaths ago was Bud Alivisos correcting me for calling the King of the North in verse, for saying that Uriah Smith called the King of the North in verse 36 Turkey. He didn't. His problem with Turkey comes in verse 40. But just the idea got in my head that I had done the very thing Uriah Smith had done. I had taken a power in verse 36, put a wrong definition on it, which if you would applied it, it would have destroyed the rest of the following verses. And that's what, and I was doing it to criticize Uriah Smith, who had done that very thing. And in that same Sabbath, the issue came up about whether the symbol that establishes the vision is the United States or Rome, which I call modern Rome, and which others may call the United States modern Rome. I don't think we can do that. I don't think we should do that. And comments that I had, if I had genuine confidence in Collins aptitude and understanding of these things, this isn't any kind of criticism on any human being. One of the reasons I read the initial statements was that we're going to be tested. We're going to be, go through an increasingly difficult test. Where's the one I'm looking for one testing trials where she talks about the furnace fire, not seen it. So I'll worry about it. If what these articles, what we're teaching is true, probation is about to close. And we're in the very end of the ceiling time of the 144,000. And it would be foolish. It would be absurd to think that there isn't areas of this message that need to be hammered out between those of us that are like-minded. And although we're not living in the same area as where the Millerites, when they were working to bring about an understanding of the message in 1844, we still have that responsibility to not only bring about the correct understanding of the message, but to be laboring with one another to where each of us can get on board and we can see eye to eye with these things. So I needed to respond. If only for those that are new in this message with the idea that as far, as far as I can understand it, the power that established the vision is the papacy. Shall we pray? Heavenly father, we thank you for this Sabbath. We thank you for your prophetic word. And we ask that your Holy Spirit would continue to open your word to us and clean out any areas of our understanding that need to be cleaned, that we have the ability to present this message thoroughly and convincingly to those people that we come in contact with in Jesus name. Amen. Jam? Um, so going through this history, it kind of came to me, I mean, a little bit of, I'm trying to see if my logic is correct. So if maybe you can analyze that. So, um, so the power that, uh, comes to the aid of Ptolemy, the child was, uh, Rome. Um, and then they were designated as a small, weak at first, and then testing their warlike arm as they grew. So did not the United States also come up as a small power and, and they were weak at first, and then they tested their military power. And then now they're, they came up and now they're the, you know, the great power at the end. Yeah, that might be a parallel. Yeah. And so, so then I see, I don't know this kind of question, but I don't know exactly what. So there was a league made, uh, with Antiochus Epiphanes with Syria and Macedonia. So was there a league made with Rome? Was the, uh, is, is that with Ptolemy or did, was there another, is there a league there that Rome made that can parallel the league with, of Antiochus? Is that, I think, I don't know if you'd call it parallel, but I don't know if you'd call it parallel, but they became, Rome became the Egyptian child's, uh, protector, legal, a legal thing for the Romans during that time period. And they did it in the history where Antiochus and Philip of Macedonia had determined they were going to take that, take Egypt. So yeah, there were a couple leagues, if you're going to call them that, if that, if that's what they are, agreements in that history. Yes. Okay. And then, um, so by, um, Rome coming to the aid of Ptolemy isn't, isn't that the, um, in Daniel establishment of the vision? Well, that's the history that took place, but for me, when I read verse 14, the characteristics of the, what establishes the vision is that it was a power that would exalt itself. It would, uh, fall and it would be the one that established the vision. So it's, it wasn't, maybe, maybe there's more to it in terms of what it did for Egypt than I've thought before, but basically it's the characteristics of one of the primary characteristics of the papacy is he's the haughty, the haughty power. He exalts himself and his, the fall of the papacy is the whole punchline of Bible prophecy, the ultimate fall of the papacy. It's the story. So it's their fault, their exaltation that establishes the vision. Right. But, but historically didn't ancient Rome established the vision in Daniel? Historically. What do you mean by established the vision? Well, isn't that one in, uh, now you asked that question, but I wasn't really ready to prepare to answer that question, but in, um, Uriah Smith's, um, uh, book on Daniel and Revelation, doesn't he say Rome establishes the vision in Daniel and that's when they come and they establish the vision when they, um, in, when they do the act of coming to the aid of Ptolemy. And that's when they come into history. But I don't see when I read that I don't see the emphasis or the slant that you're putting on it that I don't see I'll have to study that a little bit more and see if I can but so if ancient Rome came to the aid of Ptolemy the child and if we if I am take it to the future and say the United States is coming to the aid of the child of the papacy which is Sunday then the United States would uplift Sunday and establish that by the Sunday law and then in Revelation 13 12 then they would cause the it says that they caused the whole world to wander after the beast. So I was kind of looking as like ancient Rome established or maybe that's not the right word so don't maybe not say that but ancient Rome came to the aid of Ptolemy as a child and protected it and I was kind of seeing that United States came to the aid of the papacy the child of the papacy which is Sunday protected it and lifted up lifted it up and exalted that and actually caused everyone because they have the military power so they have the strength to enforce it and so they cause everyone to to make the image of the whole world that first first first the United States because they they they make the law in the United States and and then they go to the world or they form the image of the beast in the United States to the papacy so they they have the because the United States is so called if if Christian nationalists would say it they would say that Sunday is the the day of worship in our country if they say if they apostate Christians say that's the day of worship and so then the United States comes to the aid of the papacy in making the Sunday law in the United States and then and their military of power they're the only power with the military strength to establish it as a and and enforce it by force cause everybody to um to I think you're working real hard to identify something that doesn't work okay I mean I'm listening to you what you're saying and I think and I have a a weakness in this regard I'll listen to people and I'll see areas where if I chose to I would criticize them prophetically you know this is wrong or that's wrong and I'm listening to the things that you're saying and I'm thinking there is all kinds of there is all kinds of nuances with that logic for instance you're you're wanting the the United States to be a small people that come through the aid of the papacy and that's how they that's how they came up as a country yeah but I mean here at the end they're no longer that way and this this prophecy is taking place just before just the other thing is it's taking place just before the Sunday law and what you're saying that the United States does for the papacy is at the Sunday law and post Sunday law there's just a a lot of oh there's a gap there you're saying just inconsistencies is what I'm saying I'm I'm saying you would be better off I don't want to promote my side of the argument but you would be better off treating the the arrival of Rome in our history as papal Rome and your your reason for doing that isn't just because it works for me or anything it's prophecy teaches that for the 70 years that the United States would be a kingdom that the papacy is forgotten okay for 70 years so it's it's not even it would be it could be consistent he would have to be involved in history the papacy he'd be doing the work of Antiochus probably from 1989 onward would be the papacy uh anyway I'm having a hard time seeing it I think yeah I consider that yeah when I when we're talking I usually am writing down a visual reference presentation on my paper so that's so that's kind of um so that that's what that's why it's hard for everyone else to see but anyway that's all I have but I wanted to thank you so much I really appreciate it may be hard for us to see for that reason maybe they you're trying to prove something that's wrong no I'm not you're trying to prove anything I just I don't want to prove anything I'm not saying that you're doing anything malicious I'm just saying I think you might be going down the wrong line of logic or whatever you would say and it's only going to get confusing for you I would suspect okay proceed if you're going to proceed that way okay so um thank you very much I really appreciate all your comments and I don't take anything negatively so I'm really I'm really happy to be a part of this group and I really appreciate everything you do and so um blessings to Sabbath Day on what you have going on afterwards and have a great day thank you thank you Colin happy Sabbath everyone thank you for your presentation um um I just um want to express what I'm seeing and why I'm seeing it so when I look at um Daniel chapter 11 I see a two-four dealing with the papacy and the United States Revelation 13 14 17 it's the same way it's the beast and its image what is an image so in looking at um let's say the evidence that or that brother Daniel brought Constantine dealing with Constantine and I think Maximus so the first Sunday law which is going to typify the Sunday law in our time so when we looked at Maximus a parallel to Biden Constantine a parallel to Trump in our time right so God declares the end from the beginning so for me when you when I'm looking at the Sunday law then the Sunday law now you know how it comes about the model for that the 1260 and all you know the um first Sunday law 321 um so when I look at Daniel 11 Revelation 13 Revelation 14 Revelation 17 it's all about the Sunday law the Sunday law in our time which is modeled by the past what has happened in the past and I'm saying when we look at Daniel chapter 11 for example we can see America in there and we have to see the dynamics of the north and the south also so I agree with all that you said in the big picture but focusing on the image of the beast I'm saying that when you look at the king of the north it's the republicans the king of the south the democrats so even in the beginning of the chapter you can see the democrats and the republican in the end verse 40 you can see the in my beliefs you can see the struggle between Biden 2020 and what's going to come now the king of the north the return of the king of the north and then the U.S. this national Sunday law follows their verse 41 you know it goes to the universal Sunday law and I'm saying those things must happen for the deadly wound to be healed the only way that um the papacy can come back at the end of that chapter the only way is through the U.S. the deal the happenings what happens in America the papacy cannot bring about a Sunday law it's the United States and the kings will revelation 17 the 10 kings will give their power and strength onto the beast so there's a progression that how it heals so I'm saying if you look at the beginning and the end because that's how God teaches knowledge we cannot leave out the United States because in the the the United States the image of the beast is who brings about the Sunday law in our time so that has been my argument and I'm saying I'm just putting it in a simplified way when you look at America in sports and conquest everything that has been the the way of Rome you know and so you have to see pagan Rome papal Rome even the dynamics between the democrats and the republicans and I'm saying it's no accident when our church was denominating uh become a denomination 1863 midst of the civil war the north and the south and it's established in America that the republicans or the north the democrats or the south and you can see that dynamics between pagan and papal Rome even going on right now in America and in the end the republicans will run up when out that's the papal parallels because I look at everything in the bible as type and anti-type so I'm sorry to take so much time in in in and I'm not trying to belabor it I'm trying to really have a solid understanding of all of this so thank you so much yeah what what you have a knack for me of of saying a lot of punching a whole lot of buttons in a real short period of time where I have I have to really force myself to to remember all that you were saying and I'm not criticizing I'm just telling I think the the the difference maybe with what I'm seeing and what you're seeing is that the vision is established by the understanding of Rome the role of Rome in bible prophecy I agree and there's a story the Sunday law is a story about the vision of Rome and there's a story I agree and there's a story the Sunday law after the United States and there's a story of the Sunday law in the United States the image of the beast leads to the Sunday law in the United States that the image of the beast in the world leads to the world Sunday law so on and so forth and so I don't have a problem I've said this with with this discussion more than once I don't have a problem seeing the the elements of the papal struggle that goes on in the world reflected in the same struggle that goes on in the United States I teach that I teach that directly what I'm saying is that in either case it is Rome that is the point of reference for rightly dividing uh what's being represented not the United States and when we make the United States the point of reference we get in trouble as far as I can tell but you I'm not criticizing you say you you you say many things and I can't remember all of them once I start trying to respond my bad not yours um let me leave it at this um if I can I hope I'm wrong but I'm I'm convinced that having the right understanding of who establishes the vision I mean that's what I was saying last Sabbath where there is no vision the people perish um I think we have to understand that it is the papacy that sets forth the the prophetic structure for both before the Sunday law in the United States and after the Sunday law in the United States they are the um the power that exalts themselves and establishes these things and I'm not the sister that just spoke I'm not so sure how long she's been following this message it doesn't matter uh but it seemed to me that she had a few things that were probably misconceptions just because she hasn't followed it for long I could be wrong I'm not trying to make that point but my concern is and this is my point is that there's people out there that are listening to these things that we're saying and they don't have some of the background that we did and when we start talking about the Democrats and the Republicans before the Sunday law in the United States being the king of the south and the king of the north I understand how to hold that concept in my head and apply it and I those dynamics are there I'm certain of it but never have I reached the point to where I thought that the image of the beast is the power that establishes the vision, just theoretically, if you don't have the papacy as the beast, you cannot have an image to the beast. 100%. Okay. So, it's all based upon the testimony of the papacy, the prophetic testimony. 100%. And Brother Jeff, that's why I always say God declares the end from the beginning in a type and anti-type manner. So, when you look at the story of Salome, right, it's a dual, it's a dual application. So, it's Revelation, you know, 14, 13, 14, 17, and Daniel chapter 11. So, for me, my understanding, and it can be flawed or wrong, there could be no Sunday Law in our time without the work of the image of the beast, the United States. There could be absolutely no Sunday Law in our time, because it's the image of the beast that brings about. So, again, with me looking at the threefold union, the sixth, the seventh, and the eighth, is one way, you know, which is different from number eight being modern Rome, because the title, you know, number eight, Rome goes down as Rome, it comes back up exactly as Rome. So, what I've said from the beginning, if there is a modern Rome, it has to be America. And I believe when it says Rome established the vision, I believe that 100%. But I also believe in the anti-type, which makes America modern Rome, and they're the one that's going to heal. It doesn't take away from the papacy in any shape or form, but in a prophetic way, it shows you that what America will do, it walks in the exact, it exercises all the power of the first beast. It does exactly what the papacy has done in the past. That's what I'm saying. It could be flawed, it could be wrong, you know, but I think it's a worthy discussion, because Daniel chapter 11 needs much study that they may be seeing a revival among God's people. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. I just wanted to make a point about the Kingdom of Bible prophecy. In Daniel 2, 7, and 8, you have Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome that you can see. Revelation 17 adds to that, makes it clear that it's Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan Rome. Then you've got the papacy, which is modern Babylon. Then you have modern Medo-Persia, which is the United States, the second one. Okay. Then you have modern Greece, which is the United Nations, and then you have modern Rome, which I don't see how you could take it back to the second one again. It's the fourth one. It's the threefold makeup of modern Babylon, which is the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet. It seems pretty clear to me. But then, if you try to bring in the United States as modern Rome, what do you do? And this, Walter brought to my attention last week, what do you do with Daniel 11, verse 41, where he's going to enter into the glorious land? Obviously, the United States is not going to enter into its own self. It's the papacy at the Sunday Law that enters into the glorious land. It just seems like anything other than that will bring in confusion somewhere. That's it. I think so. Larry? Happy Sabbath, everybody. It seems to me, there's a couple of thoughts that I had as I listened to this discussion. If we're going to make, if Colin's right and you're going to make the United States modern Rome, then what do we make the papacy then? What do they become if not modern Rome? And then the other thought that I had is what Bud just said. If we're making the sixth, seventh, and eighth kingdom all simultaneously, in some sense the same kingdom, would not, in some level, all of those kingdoms be modern Rome as well, on some level? And it seems to me that when the United States is passing its Sunday Law, it's doing so on behalf of the papacy. And a tool in the hand is not the hand. It seems to me that the papacy is the one who's actually in control of all this stuff behind the scenes. And so it wouldn't be necessarily proper to call the United States modern Rome. It's a tool in the hand of modern Rome. You could say it's an image of modern Rome, but not modern Rome. And so those are kind of the thoughts that I had. I'd be curious of your thoughts on that. Well, that's the problem I see with it. I also see the problem that we're not settled in this, and time seems to be fleeting through the hourglass. There's a safety. Don't hold me to this. This isn't, I probably shouldn't say this, but when all else fails, trust the pioneers. OK, the pioneers battled the subject that the power that established the vision was the papal power. You're going to have to be the one that makes whoever decides to take that position has the responsibility, I believe, to be the one that really clarifies that because it's new light that you're dealing with, if that's the case. And I don't think it is new light. And I think it's, I think, as I said, I don't have much of a problem with the prophetic movements that Colin recognizes, because I recognize them as well. But I think there's a, we're going to stumble, someone's going to stumble over the logic of who and what is Rome, modern Rome at the end of the world. And I don't think we have to do it. I'm perfectly comfortable calling the United States the image of the beast. But I don't want to call it modern Rome. But that's just part of it. I don't want to say that in that sequence of verses, which to me are some of the most important verses in the Bible, in verses 13 to 15 of Daniel 11, I don't want to be unclear about who the players are. You can't afford to. It's dangerous. It's life threatening. Yeah, I agree. Those are my thoughts. I just wanted to get your thoughts on what I was seeing. And I'd also be happy to hear Colin's take on it too at some point, maybe after all this. Thank you very much, Jeff. Have a good Sabbath, everyone.